ATI RADEON info page
This page contains info on using an ATI Radeon series card with the 6400. Please feel free to send me your experiences.
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ATI Radeon on older Macs: I found this blurb on Mike's Accelerate Your Mac web site. we might have another upgrade for our video systems after all :)
[ Notes on Mac Models To Be Supported by ATI Radeon PCI: - A post in the forums here noted ATI's Mac Radeon page answers to this question:
- What systems will the new RADEON(tm) MAC EDITION work in?
The RADEON(tm) MAC EDITION AGP version is designed to fit into any AGP based Mac. RADEON(tm) MAC EDITION PCI is designed for PCI-based computers running Mac OS even those limited to 7" cards such as the Performa systems or the Power Macintosh 6400 or 6500."
There was an initial problem with 603e based Macs with the Rage128 Orion (noted in my review last year of that card that was later fixed), so this time around there should (hopefully) be no issues. It's good to see that older Macs will be officially supported by the Radeon. I'm hoping the PCI version does appear late in September, shortly after the AGP retail version is released. The Radeon retail card also features a video output port (for TV use). ]
Hopefully as Mike states, ATI has had some time to fix there driver issues with older Macs and that the Radeon will shine through!
3/10/2001 ATI Radeon and the 6400 work great!: I have received some good info from a few readers that the Radeon works great in his 6400 with Sonnets G3 upgrade. Thanks guys! Carl reports that his Radeon seems to have cured the sound issues that previous ATI cards had on his 6400! Could ATI have finally fixed this issue with sound stuttering in games and other audio apps? Lets hope so :)
I was starting to think that it was time to buy another desktop, but the combination of the Tango Firewire/USB card (which I bought based on your page), and the ATI Radeon, have given new life to my 6400.
I did a framerate test using Unreal Tournament, and only got 16 fps on the intro flyby. This is a bit deceptive. The game, running at 1024*768 with 32 bit color, runs very,very fast. Very fluid. Driver(the game) is a bit choppy and I can't figure that one out, since it really isn't that complex a game. Even when you reduce the screen to very small. So that deserves some more investigation. Falcon 4, which is very intense graphically is useable if you turn down some of the texture complexity. It can have problems on my Powerbook Pismo 400. My results aren't the most reliable though, since I left all my extensions running. Anyway, I prefer Hornet Korea and A10 attack, and they run fantastic. The big deal for me is sound. Carmageddon would run without sound before, and FA18 Korea/Hornet was intermittent and the voices were garbled. All of these problems have disappeared. Which is what we wanted!
Im sure some of your power users will do more in depth testing and find some useful tricks for these games. The news is, that they can go and buy it now and not worry about it failing.
You should tell them though that it runs only in the PCI slot next to the L2 slot, not the PCI slot farthest away from the cables (outside). I don't know why. Perhaps it was a factor with the Tango card specifically? Before I installed it, I downloaded the latest driver from ATI. It seemed to be a good plan, since the CD came with the older driver. Tell your users to prepare for that before installing so it is in the hard drive.
Hope that is helpful to you.
My setup: Performa 6400 w Sonnet L2 G3 300/512, Sonnet Tango USB/Firewire, 20 Gig maxtor HD,Apple TV/Video, Farallon 10/100 Comm slot II card, Viewsonic 17 PT 770 Professional series monitor, ATI Radeon 32 M PCI card.
- [I have tried Unreal, UnReal Tourn,Quake 3,FA/18 Hornet, A10 Attack, Driver, Carmageddon (2),Falcon 4, and SoundJam. The "Big" games I ran at resolutions much higher than I have ever played, and in 32 bit color as opposed to 16. There are no sound issues at all, and the graphics are very good. Also, Bryce, Poser, Carrara, Canoma, Strata Studio Pro 3, and Vectorworks run very fast. rendering time is much better than my old 4 MB ATI Xclaim. I'm not one to measure this stuff, but I just thought I would let you know it works great.
The machine stays at 43 deg Celsius, a bit cooler than it did before, but then I had two video cards. Now only one, and it has a fan.
The USB Firewire card runs well, but has a problem with the Radiologic driver and my USB external 30 Gig. If I leave it unplugged, then plug in the USB after the boot, all is well. All the joysticks,a scanner,my printer,mouse,hub, have no problem with this card.
- [Well, it came today. I also ordered a Sonnet Tango Firewire/USB card.
My config>> Performa 6400/136 MB Ram with a Sonnet G3 L2 upgrade (300Mhz/512cache)+20Gig internal.
I was removing an ATI Xclaim VR (4mb) and a Macmagic Voodoo card (8mb). I decided to put the Radeon in the same slot as the ATI VR (the outside one,farthest from the motherboard). I installed the tango on the inside (up against the G3 L2 card.
I restarted.....and nothing. Machine started, monitor started,but then black monitor, boot stopped.
I had read somewhere that changing the order of the PCI cards may make a difference. It did.
Put the Radeon next to the G3. By the way, you hear the little fan purring away, and I guess it is strategically located to move heat from this area. Boot with shift key down (no extensions). I had downloaded the latest Radeon driver installer yesterday, thinking the provided CD would be older. It was. The latest fixes a few things with Quake, and some other things.
I am testing a few key things as I type.....
Two particular programs that I found had choppy/broken or absent sound sometimes were Carmageddon and FA/18 Hornet. UnReal and Quake seemed to be OK.
Well,Carmageddon 2 passes and so does FA/18 Hornet. Well, almost. Every once in awhile there is a short break in the engine sound (Hornet), but then I have alot of extensions running, and I have not restarted after trying three games in a row. Oops, I also have file sharing on. That is probably it!
I tried UnReal Tournament in 32 bit color, and the highest res on my Viewsonic PT770 professional Series 17" monitor. Wow. Very fast. Actually, Hornet looks good at the 1024 res. I have never seen that before.
So the sound problems (at least the way they affected me) seem to be gone. I just tried the USB mouse and it works, so that's all have for now.
Apple System profiler identifies Video memory as 32 MB. Wow. Metronome says 43 deg Celsius after about an hour. That could be the little fan, and the fact that I took the opportunity to use a can of air on the inside and cleared the crap out.
ATI Radeon and 6500 with Sonnets G3 are a no go?: Rick got a Radeon card for his 6500 and is having trouble with it! Thanks for the info Rick. Seems this ATI card has the same problem on the 6500 as other recent ATI cards do and that they conflict with the stock ATI chips on the mother board when a Sonnet G3 upgrade is installed.
- [If I turned off the Sonnet extension it would work. I have the Voodoo 2000 with the pass through that is great for 3D but does not accelerate 2D. This actually works well since the G3 cache card speeds up my stock 2D ATI hardware and still allows me to use my Apple Video system. It also works well with the Sonnet accelerator. I was disappointed also that the Radeon didn't work. In fact, in the past I could not get a single ATI board to work with the Sonnet accelerator. Let me know is some one else does in a 6500. I don't know about the 6400.
- The Radeon PCI is not compatible with the Sonnet G3/400 and a 6500. Mine crashed each and every time. When it did work, it was slow. I sent it back.]
3/23/2001 ATI's Radeon and the 6500, may work together after all: Chris has a 6500 and says it works fine with his Radeon card. He did have to install it in the 1st slot (closest to the mother board) in order for it to work though. The other 6500 owner may have had it in the 2nd slot which is why it did not work for him? Click here for more ATI Radeon info and the 6400/6500.
- [I was able to get ATI's Radeon 32MB PCI card to work in my PM6500/Sonnet G3/400. I also had a problem installing it in the 2nd PCI slot (Sonnet Tango card was in the first PCI slot). However, after switching the cards and placing the Radeon card in the 1st slot and the Tango card in the second slot, both worked like a charm. I started the system with extensions turned off, used the Radeon installer, and was able to reboot and have everything work ok without disabling any other extensions.
Sonnet G3/400mhz/1MB backside cache
96 MB RAM
ATI Radeon 32MB PCI
Sonnet Tango USB/Firewire PCI
Apple 17" Monitor
20GB Maxtor Hard Drive]
6/23/2001 ATI Radeon cards prevents ethernet card from working. Swapping PCI slot locations may be the fix?: Robert sends word that once he installed an ATI Radeon card in his 6400 then his Asante ethernet card stopped working? He was able to swap the PCI slot locations and then it worked again but maybe not for all? Thanks for the info Robert.
- [I bought the 32 MB ATI Radeon card and it works fine but since installing, I can't get my ethernet PCI card from Asante to work. I am using the ethernet card to print to a 20/800 GCC laser printer. It worked fine before I installed the Radeon card. This is on a 6400 at work. I also have the same 6400 setup at my home except the laser printer. Instead of the laser printer, I have a ethernet card used on a Airport network which worked fine till I installed the Radeon card. I did call ATI and Asante and did figure out that the ethernet card needs to be in the slot furthest away from the motherboard. I have gotten the ethernet/airport to work by observing that in the tcp/ip control panel the subnet mask number needs to be 255.255.255.0. It was not so I copied my tcp/ip preferences from my other airport enabled macs to the 6400 and it worked! Now I need to figure out what will make the card work at my work 6400. When I figure it out, I will report back.
- Apple Performa 6400/200 w/l2-G3 Sonnet upgrade card, 128 mb ram, 9 gig 7200 rpm hd, Asante ethernet pci card and ATI Radeon pci card 32 mb.
1/19/2002 ATI Radeon video card may not be immune from audio stuttering for all?: There is a thread on my forums started from a 6400 user who says his Mac is having audio issues even with a Radeon card. Also a 6500 owner says he was completely unsuccessful at getting the Radeon card to even work as long as acceleration was turned on! Seems there just might not be any cure at all for the 6400 regarding audio stuttering and high end video cards or USB cards :( One user swore that just installing a 6500 mother board would fix it. But if the 6500 cannot run a modern video card, what's the point :( Click here for more on the audio stuttering issues.
Radeon 7000 in a 6400 6/7/2002
Tom posted in the forums that he installed the ATI Radeon 7000 video card in his 6400 and it works fine. Thanks Tom. I asked if he could try running dual monitors on the card since that is one of its selling points. I'll let you know if it works when I know :)
- [Just completed installation of a ATI Radeon Mac Edition in my G3 upgraded 6400. The installation went very smoothly and everything looks ok. The video difference is really amazing. Purchased the card from
Buy.com for $107.00. I am running OS 9.1 and to achieve full 3D graphics you need OpenGL 1.2.2 from OS 9.2.1.]
7/7/2002 More Radeon 7000 user info: John sent me some info on his experience with the Radeon 7000 video card in his 6400. Thanks John.
- [Tom, just a note about my experience with the 7000.
I'm using a 6400 with a Sonnet 400mz card, 108 mg RAM and RamDoubler, with OS8.6-FU. It had an ATI Xclaim Pro graphics card (Rage-based) with 4 meg of VRAM with a KDS 17" monitor.
Like another contributor to the 6400 Zone I've installed a Radeon 7000 in my 6400, replacing the Xclaim Pro. In general it seems to work well but certain games would either refuse to launch or would hang and lock up the computer. The only error message was that of "error -1, cannot obtain gamma setting." The same games worked normally with the old card. I posted the issue to the Ambrosia help forum and received this answer:
"...it's an error being received directly from the OS, as for some reason it can't read the gamma table for certain video cards for the purposes of doing screen fades."
Since Tom states that he is using 9.1 this may be a problem specific to older systems or only a few games. The card is a major improvement but it may not work for everyone. If someone wants to give it a try I would recommend that you try to buy it with return privileges.
As he mentions, some of his issues could be related to the OS he is running. ATI really made the card for OS 9.x and up. Click here for their driver support page. Notice they say that OS 8.6 is not supported. If you are not a gamer then the card should function fine. But I would install OS 9.1 if you wish to use the card for games.
He later wrote with more specific info on how he installed the card. Thanks.
I used TomeViewer to extract the components of OpenGL1.2.2 from an OS 9 installer and installed them into OS 8.6. I also installed QuickTime 5, as ATI requires. However, I found after a careful reading of the ATI tech info that it implies OpenGL1.2.2 may be needed only to support some features of Quicktime 5, such as full-screen playback.
When I ran the ATI installer it noted that my setup was an "unsupported configuration" (I assume it referred to OS 8.6 even with OGL 1.2.2. Maybe it was the French.) I continued the install and it proceeded normally. Except for the screen fade/ gamma value issue I have not seen any problem.
Since the card still functions even if all extensions are disabled I wonder what the "real" requirements are. It seems that you may be able to install the card on non-supported configurations if you are willing to forego certain functions.]
8/5/2002 ATI Radeon 7000 PCI cards in our Macs: A few people wrote to say that this card does work on our Macs but no one said that they tried both monitor ports on the card at the same time? Bob wrote that he tried connecting a monitor on both the cards ports and it worked as expected! Thanks Bob. He also notes his audio issues are gone. Not sure which model Mac he has or if a L2 G3 is installed though? Maybe he will read this and reply back :)
- [Good day everyone,
After a 3 months wait I received my ATI RADEON 7000 Video card. Well,it's working as expected.(FINE !!!)
Tried with AppleVision 1710AV display on the card, no display attached to the Mac. Then an HP VGA 15 inch PC display on the card and the 17 inch AV on the Mac. All working as it should.
QuickTime 5 movies play now much better then before.
At this moment it's stable, with no troubles.
And now something special: There is no audio stuttering anymore, even without a CD in the CD-ROM player. GREAT !!!
If somebody as some questions about configurations are alike,ask me by way of forum or my E-mail. I'll answer as good and soon as I can.
8/18/2002 ATI Radeon cards installed in a 6500. Do they work?: I have been reading a lot of negative reports on my forums from 6500 owners that have tried to get an ATI Radeon card to work in their Mac. I only have one report from a 6500 owner who said it worked and I am unable to contact this person again? If anyone has tried a Radeon card (Mac edition or 7000) in their 6500 and it works, please email me your experience. Thanks. Basically I am looking for experience with 3D games. This seems to be the big problem. 2D works fine but if you play a 3D game, the 6500 will lockup in about 30 seconds!
ATI Radeon 7000 installed in a 6400 works great!: The 6500 has built in ATI chips which seem to cause a problem for 6500 owners of L2 G3 cards and an ATI Radeon card. The 6400 does not have built in ATI chips so it does not have issue with ATI's highend video cards and a L2 G3. Bob wrote with his experience with a 6400 and ATI Radeon 7000 card. Thanks Bob.
- [Good day Tom,
I've seen Your website update today (8/5/2002) and here is my reply on Your questions about the ATI RADEON 7000 : I tried every combination I could think of , on both , the MAC port and the RADEON ports , with MAC and PC monitors(14 - 15 - and 17 inch).Everything was working good and still is.No troubles at all.
I did some experiments with extensions , e.g. QuickTime N1-5.0.2 (changed from the Dutch to the English version) , Apple's CD/DVD-driver N1-1.4.3 disabled and Apple CD-ROM N1-5.4 enabled.I also changed the places of the cards in the PCI Slots a couple of times (RADEON 7000 and F.W/USB combo).
Maybe a combination of all this , but at once there was no stuttering anymore.Before that , my solution on stuttering was keeping a CD in the player all the time.
That didn't hurt , but I like the situation more like it is now.(No CD in the player anymore).
As this may be of some help to the people on the forum , here is my configuration of the moment :
"Apple" Performa PPC 6400/200 - 136Mb RAM
"Apple" AppleVision 1710AV monitor
"Apple" SCSI CD-Rom (12X) intern
"Apple" build in SuperDrive 1.4Mb diskette-unit.
"ATI" RADEON 7000 32Mb Mac Edition video card.
"IBM" build in 4.3 Gig HD (ATA-IDE) with OS 9.1
"Quantum" Fireball ST 4.3 Gig SCSI HD with OS 9.1 in the upper-bay
"Sonnet" Crescendo/L2 G3 processor upgrade (BG3-400-1M)
"Sonnet" Tango PCI combo card (USB/FW)
"Farallon" Fast EtherTX-10/100 (YPN998L-TX) CommSlot II ethernet card
"D-Link" selfpowered Cable / DSL Internet Gateway + 4 Port Switch with integrated Firewall (DI-804)
"tekComm" selfpowered 6 Port USB Hub (FH-600)
"Lacie" selfpowered Studio 40 Gig FW HD (extern)
"Epson" selfpowered USB printer (Stylus Photo 875 DC)
"HP" selfpowered 4p ScanJet Flatbedscanner
"Yamaha" selfpowered 8424s CDRW (SCSI) extern
"Philips" ToUcam Pro (PCVC 740K) WebCam
"Motorola" selfpowered Cable modem (CyberSURFR Wave) extern
"Wacom" Digitizer II Tablet (ADB) with Erasing DuoSwitch (UP-801E) pen
"Logitech" Cordless Wheel Mouse Optical (USB)
"APC" Back-UPS 500
"Iomega" Zip-100 Plus drive (SCSI) extern
Extra build on Cooling Fan in the bottom of the machine (It's never in use.No need for it.) Temperature is always between 30-35 C°.
I don't know if you noticed but Bob says this Radeon 7000 card cured his audio stuttering issues! Other Radeon Mac edition and Radeon 7000 card owners have mentioned this in the past. It seems ATI has finally fixed this bug with our Macs and L2 G3 cards installed. Now if we could only get them working on the 6500 :(
11/2/2002 ATI Radeon 7000 and Vimage G3 don't work together: Well I couldn't resist since I had the card for testing OSX. I tried it with the Vimage G3 enabled and after the soft reboot Vimges drivers force, I had no image and the monitor appeard to go to sleep? It was hung and I had to reboot with extensions disabled. Oh well, it was worth a try :)
9/9/03 Radeon info for 6500 owners: Yoshihide sent me a lot of info on what he thinks is the problem with running an ATI Radeon card in a 6500. As noted above, many 6500 owners have had issues with the Radeon cards in their Macs and this may be do to the stock video module according to Yoshihide. Click here to read more. Thanks Yoshihide.
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This page last updated 10/19/2003