Radeon info for 6500 owners 9/9/2003

Yoshihide thinks there may be a corrolation between the 6500's ability to run an ATI Radeon card and the revision of the video module in side the 6500. Basically if you have an older 6500 or a 6400 upgraded to a 6500, the Radeon card should work fine. If you have a 6500 with the newer video module then the Radeon card will probably have issues and not work correctly as has been seen in the past. If anyone has any info on this or tries any of the tests Yoshihide asks of, please email me your results! Thanks.

[Hello!
I've heard that the 6500 will not work well with the Radeon, and will usually freeze when you play a 3D game. But it seems as if the 6500's built in ATI Rage II video chip isn't causing the problem (?) I have a 6400 with a 6500 logic board (Everything except the logic board is from the 6400.) and I checked the video module (where the stock video connector is). It seems that it is different from the 6500's video module.

Most 6500's have 3 red capacitors on the board while the 6400 and earlier 6500s don't. However, eariler 6500 should have been replaced with a module with red capacitors to solve a problem with the video. (Older video modules have a different part number than the newer ones with capacitors

Could it be possible that a 6500 + G3 + 6400 video module or a earlier 6500 without the replacement will work with the Radeon? I don't have a Radeon or a 3D game to test this so I can't verify this, but if someone has 6400 with a 6500 logic board or a 6500 without an replacement, it's something that should be tested.

Maybe anyone who has a 6500 trying a Radeon could unplug the video module and try, but I think it would cause problems with the subwoofer/built-in speaker or the video might not appear even with Radeon.
One person on the forum wrote that another person who had a similar "upgrade" (6400 with a 6500 logic) didn't have any of the 3D freezing problem with the Radeon. If that's true, the only thing I can think of was the Video Module, which won't be replaced when you put in a 6500 board. Since there is a difference between the 6400 and the 6500 video module, I thought the 6500 video module could be causing the problem for some reason. (Although the module and PCI card seem to have no relation)

It could be possible that when you use the old (6400) video module with the 6500, the on-board ATI chip doesn't function properly (doubt it) so there won't be any conflicts with the PCI Radeon and the on-board video chip. After all, the old video modules in the earlier 6500s were replaced to solve a problem with the video system (I think) This could also be true when you unplug the video unit... since the built-in ATI chip doesn't see the video module and doesn't function properly, there's no conflict with the Radeon and the on-board Rage II. The question is; will the video appear on a monitor connected to the PCI Radeon when the Video Module is disconnected? Will the Mac not shut down the whole Video system? (Like the "Headless Mac")

That above is just my theory... I could be 100% wrong about that, but it's worth a try to unplug the video unit or try an old video unit.

Old Video Unit = Found on all 6400 and earlier 6500. Has no Red Capacitors. Part Number: 922-2547 New Video Unit = Found on most 6500. Has 3 red capacitors on the module. Part Number: 922-2996 The one sold on Sun Remarketing is the new one (Since it's listed under 6500/250

I don't know what most people have their resolution set at, but when playing a 3D game the resolution may change (?) If the regular resolution is set above 832x624 (such as 1024x768) and the 3D game sets the resolution below that, it may cause a problem. On the other hand, if the regular resolution is set below 832x624 (such as 640x480) and the 3D game sets the resolution above that, it may also cause a problem. Again, that's just my theory so I could be completely wrong.
Here's something I posted on the forum.

If your Power Mac's serial number is between XB708xxxxx and XB723xxxxx, then the chances of getting the Radeon to work will be greater. All 6500 that fall between those serial numbers have the old video module installed, this is, unless your video module has been replaced with a new one to solve the "blurry video" problem.

One other thing is if the serial number falls between XB708xxxxx and XB718xxxxx, check the underside of the logic board... check to see if resistor # 363 says 100 or 101. (It's located near the bottom center, near to a slightly big yellow capacitor... the resistor is very small)

Click to view a larger image
If it says "100", it's an old board. If it says "101" it's a new board. The 100 resistor caused "jittering video" problem on earlier machines and were later replaced with "101". I took pictures of where it's located, but now my USB card won't work anymore so I can't load them...

So we can have a few different conbinations here....

6400 Logic + old module Old 6500 Logic + Old Module Old 6500 Logic + New Module New 6500 Logic + Old Module New 6500 Logic + New Module

We're sure a 6400 logic board + old module works with the Radeon. We're almost sure that a New 6500 logic board + New module won't work with the Radeon.

BTW: I had the resistor marked 101, so my combination would be New 6500 Logic + Old Module]

Here is an image of the video module which shows where the 3 capacitors are located. Thanks Yoshihide!

Click to view a larger image

Testing the Radeon 7000 in a 6500: JJ ran some tests using CineBench to test a Radeon 7000 in his 6500. Thanks JJ. Note in the past I've posted that the Radeon 7000 has issues in a 6500, specially when Sonnets G3 is install. But as you read above there are combinations that should work

[I have completed CineBench 3D testing of the Radeon 7000 Mac Edition PCI video/graphics card in my 6500/250.

There were several false starts with the testing until I downloaded and installed the proper versions of related software.
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Results:

OS 8.1 and 8.5 failed to start-up the computer due to Operating System incompatibility with the installed October 2002 ATI drivers downloaded from ATI.com. Older drivers are available from ATI.com, Older drivers were not downloaded and not tested.

OS 8.6, 9.0, 9.1, 9.2.2 passed the tests.

Testing was done with software installed on an 810 meg SCSI hard drive installed in the forehead of the 6500, the Zip drive provision.

The configuration of the software is as follows:
Step 1.: Reformat the hard drive.
Step 2.: Install the OS from the retail OS CD, also known as the Universal Installer CD. Easy/default installation: no options. OS 9.2.2 via OS 9 Helper.
Step 3.: Install Sonnet Crescendo driver version 1.4.7.
Step 4.: Install OpenGL version 1.2.1.
Step 5.: Install QuickTime 6.0.3.
Step 6.: Install ATI October 2002 drivers.
Step 7.: Install the CineBench test software.
Step 8.: Set Energy Saver to "Never".
Step 9.: Set Virtual Memory to 640 meg assigned to the ATA (main) hard drive.
Step 10.: Reboot to Norton CD: Disk Doctor and Speed Disk defrag/optimize both of the hard drives.
Step 11.: Reboot to the SCSI hard drive, and rebuild desktops.
Step 12.: Run Cinebench.

Actual test result numbers varied only 002, or 0.2, or 0.02, depending on statistic category, between all OS numbers. Repeat testing on the same OS number also yields the same slight differences. Comparing the VGA port to the DVI port also yields the same slight differences.

Testing time is substantially longer when conducting the tests with the 250 mhz processor, instead of the G3-400 mhz processor.

Worst case scenario: Mirrored desktop on two VGA monitors set at different resolutions. Testing was not interrupted, it took 2 and a half hours to complete with the G3 enabled. One test cycle, only. Mirrored testing in 250 mhz: not attempted.
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Conclusion: Thumbs up. The Radeon 7000 Mac Edition PCI video/graphics card works in a 6500. And it works in OS 8.6, 9.0, 9.1 and 9.2.2.

You must install OpenGL 1.2.1 before QuickTime 6.0.3, and then lastly the ATI drivers. Because QT updates OpenGL, and ATI updates QuickTime.
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Disclaimer:
As with anything, your mileage may vary...
-
JJ]

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